{"id":7572,"date":"2023-07-31T14:36:58","date_gmt":"2023-07-31T11:36:58","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/cje.org.ua\/?post_type=news&p=7572"},"modified":"2023-07-31T14:37:16","modified_gmt":"2023-07-31T11:37:16","slug":"an-exclusive-interview-of-head-of-the-cje-andrii-kulykov-for-interfax-ukraine-news-agency-abridged","status":"publish","type":"news","link":"https:\/\/cje.org.ua\/en\/news\/an-exclusive-interview-of-head-of-the-cje-andrii-kulykov-for-interfax-ukraine-news-agency-abridged\/","title":{"rendered":"An exclusive interview of head of the CJE Andrii Kulykov for Interfax-Ukraine news agency"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

An exclusive interview of head of Commission on Journalistic Ethics Andrii Kulykov for Interfax-Ukraine news agency [abridged]<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Full text <\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Text by: <\/em>Oleksandr Trokhymchuk<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Photo by:<\/em> Anastasiia Horpinchenko<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Let’s start our conversation with the topic, which I will tentatively call the “Butusov case,\u201d although it actually concerns all media workers who cover the war in Ukraine. At the end of June, the editor-in-chief of Censor.net, Yurii Butusov, shared a video online where a certain unit is blown up in a minefield while evacuating the wounded. He later removed it <\/strong>with an explanation<\/strong><\/a>. But this publication still caused a public outcry: some consider the distribution of such content necessary, while others consider it unacceptable. What stance does the Commission take?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Regarding this, I would rather express my own opinion than the position of the Commission. I consider such publications necessary, but not so that people do not forget about the war, but to be alert and prevent such stories.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We remember the onslaught of videos at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, particularly on our social media, with blatantly careless handling of landmines and shells or careless behavior during air raid alerts. All this puts people\u2019s lives at risk where it could be avoided. Therefore, the video published by Yurii Butusov is tragic, it can be deeply disturbing, but it forewarns people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But there is another side \u2014 an ethical one, given that the families of the deceased may recognize their loved ones in the video…<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is another issue. It is related, but different. In this case, the rule of thumb should be to avoid any publications like that until relatives are duly informed by trained people. Therefore, we have to understand whether those relatives or other people involved knew about it. These are undeniable principles that many people adhere to, but unfortunately, there are sometimes exceptions, so clarification is necessary here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Like in many other cases, we encounter the unity and struggle of opposites, where on the one hand, it\u2019s necessary, and on the other hand, it may be used by the enemy or may cause additional suffering.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The same goes for not reporting the sites of Russian strikes until the official announcement. We have already come to terms with it, and most of us have accepted that it\u2019s fair because it may help the enemy adjust fire. On the other hand, we can say that if we don\u2019t report it, we put those who wouldn\u2019t go to that area otherwise at risk. This is war, so even the most indisputable rules can backfire.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The case with Butusov\u2019s publication is far from the only one. We all remember the videos with beheading of our soldiers, cutting off their genitals or shooting them after the words \u201cglory to Ukraine.\u201d Every outlet had its own approach to covering these war crimes committed by Russia. In this case, can we develop a certain self-regulatory rule which would apply to all media?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In theory, yes. In practice, you and I know very well, as does most audience, that sometimes it is very difficult to hold back.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In addition, such publications have another important component \u2014 they are evidence of how the Russians treat us, or how they want to treat us. Without this realization, our cause, however fair, is not quite as convincing even for some of us. But when we have such indisputable evidence, this shows how we are treated, or at least gives us reason to believe that first, this is about the life of each and every one of us, and two, that this is about the existence of our country and nation per se, and hiding it is just as irresponsible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On the other hand, this is not necessarily the only thing that needs to be highlighted \u2014 we need to explain the reasons why they do it, tell people about the evolution, about the consistency in these wrongdoings because otherwise they can call any act like that, even the most brutal one, an accident.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Therefore, I support the publication of such things, but we have to make sure they are proven.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Should such materials be distributed among foreign audiences? If yes, how?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Knowing the experience of foreign colleagues and how they use such cases and cover them, I would say yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When terrorists in Afghanistan and some other Middle Eastern countries beheaded British and American citizens, it was published precisely to prove what kind of perpetrators those soldiers, journalists, civilians are dealing with, so that\u2019s not something to be concealed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

However, I will come back to your point about informing the families and loved ones of the deceased. They need to be cared for, and it must become public information after they are duly prepared.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Another sensitive issue is covering sexual crimes in the media, particularly ones committed by Russians during the war in Ukraine.  How many such violations has the Commission on Journalistic Ethics identified? Which are the most noticeable ones?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In fact, every case is noticeable. The issue is, that we [the Commission on Journalistic Ethics \u2014 Interfax-Ukraine<\/em>] mainly respond to complaints and appeals filed with us. On very rare occasions, we will initiate a statement. There was a statement regarding the case of Denisova (former Parliament Commissioner on Human Rights Liudmyla Denisova was accused in May 2022 of spreading false information regarding sexual crimes of the Russian military against Ukrainians \u2014 IF-U<\/em>).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It is impossible not to talk about sexual crimes. But I actually think that if we focus on them so much, we run a risk of overshadowing all the other crimes. Yes, we have to cover them, we have to talk about them. Yes, a sexual crime is very disturbing because it is humiliation, a horror. But why is it so disturbing? Because it is an insult to a person\u2019s dignity: apart from physical violence, a person is brutally forced to be a passive party to the abuse that is done to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But in almost all other cases, what happens is essentially the same. When your freedom is taken away without sexual violence, it is also an insult to dignity. When your property is taken away, it is not an insult to your dignity, but to your free will. So everything should be perceived comprehensively.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Again, we shouldn\u2019t forget that sexual violence is committed not only against women. Sometimes we talk about it. But abuse against a woman or a child is more disturbing. That\u2019s why we mainly speak about that. Less so about children, though there are many cases, but we need to be delicate here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But what is the degree of delicacy? Even if the story is done with full consent of the person involved, we can still violate this person\u2019s privacy and dignity. There comes a moment when a person is in a deeply affected state, experiencing major trauma, and they are ready to share the story and do, and we publish this without giving any more thought to possible consequences, since we have the formal right to do it \u2014 but we don\u2019t wait to ask the person to double and triple check whether they fully understand the consequences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There are a lot of questions here, and interestingly, most of them actually arose during peacetime, true peacetime. The fact that we are making so many mistakes now (though I feel like we are making fewer already) shows that we did not pay enough attention to the issues of journalistic ethics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And what is the situation with adherence to journalistic ethics in Ukraine today?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I believe that the full-scale war, our full-scale resistance, all those crimes, pressure, and aggression \u2014 all of that pushes us to learn the principles of ethics. At the core of the principles and standards of journalistic ethics lies, after all, the concept of truth. The truth saves lives, giving the public an opportunity to understand where is the threat and how to avoid it for yourself and help others. Any lie or silence distorts our perception of the situation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Probably the simplest example is the whole situation with our attitude to air raid alerts. There is a call not to ignore the air raid alerts. I say that each of us chooses our own way to respond to it. It would seem we all know the \u201ctwo-wall rule,\u201d know that we have to go to the nearest shelter, etc., but until there is a tragic situation, like it happened in Kyiv with a locked shelter, and later in Lviv, we don\u2019t give it much thought.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So our ethics is primarily about telling the person that there is danger, so they need to be careful and do the following things to avoid this danger. This can be danger from bombing, danger from fraud, danger from the Russian aggression overall, danger from being na\u00efve about the West, etc. In reality, the truth saves life, and delusion or self-delusion puts it in jeopardy because it does not allow for a reasonable assessment of what is happening.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Since the telethon format was first introduced, you had doubts about its effectiveness. Have you observed that this format has exhausted itself?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The telethon format will never exhaust itself. Same as a radio marathon. There are similar forms of work in online publications and even in news agencies, even if that\u2019s not what they are called: a news feed, especially dedicated to a particular subject, is not very different from this \u201cmarathon\u201d format. That is, the format will live on, but the way of its organization has long exhausted itself, I believe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When there is no attempt to make things uniform, there are more options. I think, it particularly shows in the effectiveness or popularity of messages on social media. I’m a big opponent of social media as a way to get reliable information, but the fact that there’s diversity there is what drives a lot of people in that direction.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

How would you assess the work of the telethon from the ethical and professional standpoint? Maybe, the Commission on Journalistic Ethics has already recorded violations?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The Commission on Journalistic Ethics had decisions regarding the telethon back at the beginning [of the full-scale invasion \u2014 IF-U<\/em>].<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But what is interesting and telling here is that if last year, especially at first, most issues and complaints we considered had to do with covering the war, warfare, sometimes hate speech, now, we are back to more usual things: damage to business or personal reputation, violations of privacy etc. It is actually a very good sign. On the one hand, we can interpret this as fewer problems with covering the war \u2014 as warfare \u2014 because we as journalists have learned. On the other hand, compared to last year, attention has increased to the norm to which we will someday return.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Asking about ethics, we need to ask how ethical the very idea of the telethon is. I believe it exhausted its ethical reasoning in about two-three months after it was organized. Even if we assume that this uniformity was needed for a certain period in order to shake us, to bring us to our senses, still, some of the methods used by people like Arestovych, all these statements about Russia\u2019s impending doom in a month or two, claims that we would be done by the fall \u2014 this was the most unethical thing. But it is all about the issue of truth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

(\u2026)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sometimes we can say that Ukraine cannot lose the information war because it is not waging one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It is not because Ukraine was not the one to start it?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

First, yes, we were not the ones to start it. There is no doubt about it for me. Second, unfortunately, we have much fewer resources. Third, I think we focus too much on debunking Russia\u2019s lies instead of creating our own product, which would be attractive not politically, though that is necessary as well, but just attractive as content for readers, viewers, listeners, convincing people to read and watch Ukrainian products made in Ukraine with a high quality standard rather than Sputnik or TASS, and this will show them that something from a Ukrainian source must be true.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We would also need to make sure it\u2019s not counter-propaganda, wouldn\u2019t we?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Counter-propaganda is also necessary, in many cases. But it is like a replacement therapy: a person prone to drug use cannot be immediately weaned from drugs, so they are offered a similar product, but not as harmful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Many people in the so-called West, as well as many Ukrainians, by the way, have either a developed or an intuitive desire to consume high-quality products. Technologically, the Russians produce a very high-quality product: the image is perfect, the voice-over is beautiful. As a TV and radio expert, I can tell you that half the persuasiveness of CNN or BBC depends on the voice-over, even for video stories. We can have great content, but our technical side is very much behind, for multiple reasons. But if we add technology to our meaningful, true content, we actually stand a chance.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"template":"","class_list":["post-7572","news","type-news","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nAn exclusive interview of head of the CJE Andrii Kulykov for Interfax-Ukraine news agency - \u041a\u043e\u043ci\u0441i\u044f \u0437 \u0436\u0443\u0440\u043d\u0430\u043bi\u0441\u0442\u0441\u044c\u043a\u043e\u0457 \u0435\u0442\u0438\u043a\u0438<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/cje.org.ua\/en\/news\/an-exclusive-interview-of-head-of-the-cje-andrii-kulykov-for-interfax-ukraine-news-agency-abridged\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"An exclusive interview of head of the CJE Andrii Kulykov for Interfax-Ukraine news agency - \u041a\u043e\u043ci\u0441i\u044f \u0437 \u0436\u0443\u0440\u043d\u0430\u043bi\u0441\u0442\u0441\u044c\u043a\u043e\u0457 \u0435\u0442\u0438\u043a\u0438\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"An exclusive interview of head of Commission on Journalistic Ethics Andrii Kulykov for Interfax-Ukraine news agency [abridged] Full text Text by: Oleksandr Trokhymchuk Photo by: Anastasiia Horpinchenko Let’s start our conversation with the topic, which I will tentatively call the “Butusov case,\u201d although it actually concerns all media workers who cover the war in Ukraine. 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